#499: Katie Haun on the Dark Web, Gangs, Investigating Bitcoin, and The New Magic of "Nifties" (NFTs)
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Out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.
Can I ask you a personal question?
Now? What is the time?
What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over metal endoscope. Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show. I'm going to skip my usual preamble. You guys have heard it before and I'm going to get straight to this guest because we are going to run out of time before we run out of material. My guest today is Catherine. That's with an R-Y-N commonly known as Katie Hawn Haun on Twitter at Katie K-A-T-I-E underscore Hawn, H-A-U-N. She is a general partner at Andreessen Horowitz. Previously, she spent a decade as a federal prosecutor focusing on fraud, cyber, and corporate crime alongside agencies including the SEC, FBI, and treasury. She created the government's first cryptocurrency task force and led investigations into the amount Gox hack. We might talk about what that is and the corrupt agents on the Silk Road task force. I have quite a few questions about that. While with the US Department of Justice, Katie prosecuted Rico murders. We'll define that. Organized crime, public corruption, gangs, and money laundering. So lots of good guys, in other words, she also held senior policy positions at Justice Department headquarters in both the National Security Division and attorney general's office, where her portfolio included antitrust, tax, and national security. While in the private sector, Katie has testified before both the House and Senate on the intersection of technology and regulation. Katie serves on the boards of Coinbase and hacker one and has invested in and advised tech companies from Seed to series e stage. She teaches a management course at Stanford Business School and previously taught cybercrime at Stanford Law School. Katie clerked for US Supreme Court justice Anthony Kennedy and is an honors graduate of Stanford Law School. She is a lifetime member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Katie, welcome to the show.
Tim, thanks for having me. Great to be here.
I am so excited to chat for so many reasons and I thought I would just set the tone for people listening with a few lines from our mutual friend Naval Ravikant, who is certainly a crowd and listener favorite here on the podcast. I emailed naval to ask if there might be any questions or subjects that would be interesting to explore with Katie and of course indicating that I would do my own homework. And he replied with the following I asked him if I could give attribution and he said, yes, you can cite me. So here's what he said. This was his very concise response. Quote, she has a concealed carry, grew up in Cairo, can't set foot in Russia, dealt with a lot of violent criminals, et cetera. But she's also a suburban mom with kids and runs the number one hard charging VC fund in crypto. She's quite the character. If I'm down to one phone call, instead of calling my lawyer, I'm calling. So on top of that, you seem to be the child whisperer from another mutual friend, Suna, and she talked about how incredible you are with children. So we are going to run out of material, I think, very easily. And I want to start, if it's okay with you, with the Silk Road. So the Silk Road is of great interest to me for a lot of reasons and principle. Among those is the fact that I used to work many days a week out of Glen Park Library in Francisco. For those who don't know, the founder of the Silk Road, who used the handle dread pirate Roberts, of course, an allusion to the character from the Princess Bride, was apprehended in Glen Park Library on a day I happened just not to be there. So the fact I was not there, I was not there. But it makes me assume that I must have been sitting right next to this guy many, many times. So for those who don't know, just as an introduction, could you explain what the Silk Road was?
So if you weren't at Glen park that day, Tim, that means you missed the lover's quarrel that the FBI staged in order to nab DPR's computer. I don't know if you read that.
Did. I did. And actually, Nick Bilton, who ended up writing an entire book about this, was also just a few blocks away, lived in the neighborhood. So let's move into this, and you can also explain the. Well, maybe the Silk road and then the lovers quarrel, why that was in any way tactically important.
So the Silk road, as many of your listeners probably already know, but for those who don't, is a dark knit site. And it's a site that you can buy anything from fake passports or that you could buy anything from fake passports to heroin to fentanyl to drugs and just all kinds of contraband. Right? I was actually not involved in the investigation into Rossellbrookt and DPR. A lot of people think, oh, you ran the Silk Road case. I was actually involved
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