#343 — What Is "Islamophobia"?

#343 — What Is "Islamophobia"?

Making Sense with Sam Harris

Sam Harris discusses the social and political consequences of a weaponized term. A transcript of this podcast is available on Sam’s blog. If the Making Sense podcast logo in your player is BLACK, you can SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes at samharris.org/subscribe.
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Transcript

SpeakerA
0m 21s
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0m 54s

Welcome to the Making Sense podcast. This is Sam Harris. What is Islamophobia? Someone once said it's a word invented by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons. And that's not far from the truth. There's no question that the term has been designed to confuse people. Its purpose is to conflate any criticism of Islam, which is a doctrine of religious beliefs, with bigotry against Muslims as people. In fact, it equates secularism itself, the.

SpeakerB
0m 54s
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0m 56s

Commitment to keeping religion out of our.

SpeakerA
0m 56s
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1m 3s

Laws and public policy, with hatred. And the term is now being widely used in the mainstream media and making.

SpeakerB
1m 3s
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1m 5s

It impossible to speak honestly about the.

SpeakerA
1m 5s
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1m 14s

Consequences of dangerous ideas. Let's be clear about what is real here and what is fake. Racism is real, right?

SpeakerB
1m 14s
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1m 20s

There are white supremacists in America, for instance. And of course, these imbeciles can be counted upon to hate immigrants from muslim.

SpeakerA
1m 20s
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1m 31s

Majority countries, Arabs, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc. And to hate them for their superficial characteristics, like the color of their skin. This is detestable.

SpeakerB
1m 32s
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1m 34s

But these people hate non muslim immigrants.

SpeakerA
1m 34s
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1m 38s

Too, for instance, Hindus from India, and for the same reasons.

SpeakerB
1m 38s
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1m 40s

We already have words like racism and.

SpeakerA
1m 40s
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1m 46s

Xenophobia to cover this problem. Inventing a new term like Islamophobia doesn't.

SpeakerB
1m 46s
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1m 48s

Give us license to say that there's.

SpeakerA
1m 48s
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1m 50s

A new form of hatred in the world.

SpeakerB
1m 50s
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1m 53s

There is no race of Muslims.

SpeakerA
1m 53s
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2m 1s

Islam is a system of ideas subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity. It's just like Christianity in that regard.

SpeakerB
2m 2s
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2m 5s

Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary.

SpeakerA
2m 5s
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2m 11s

Faiths, and they win converts from everywhere. People criticize Christianity all the time and.

SpeakerB
2m 12s
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2m 16s

Worry about its political and social influences. But no one confuses this for bigotry.

SpeakerA
2m 16s
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2m 60s

Against Christians as people. There's no such thing as Christophobia. If you criticize Christianity, and I have written an entire book excoriating Christianity, no one accuses you of being a racist against people from Brazil or Mexico or Ethiopia or the Philippines. But even the New York Times will use the term Islamophobia as a synonym for racism against Arabs. This is pure delusion and propaganda. There are christian Arabs, and I could become a Muslim in five minutes just by converting to the faith. How does the term antisemitism differ as a concept? Well, we have a 2000 year old.

SpeakerB
2m 60s
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3m 3s

Tradition of religiously inspired hatred against Jews.

SpeakerA
3m 3s
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3m 11s

Courtesy of christian theology. But for the last 150 years or so, Jews have been thought of as a distinct race of people, both by.

SpeakerB
3m 11s
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3m 15s

Those who hate them and rather often by Jews themselves.

SpeakerA
3m 15s
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3m 42s

So antisemitism tends to be expressed as a specific form of racism. Antisemites are not focused on what Jews believe, or even on what they do on the basis of their beliefs. Modern antisemites, like Nazis, care about who your mother's mother's mother was. Just like racism, antisemitism has become a hatred of people as people, not because of their beliefs or their behavior, but.

SpeakerB
3m 42s
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3m 45s

Because of the mere circumstances of their birth.

SpeakerA
3m 45s
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3m 46s

Why is this different?

SpeakerB
3m 47s
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3m 50s

Well, unlike a person's race or skin.

SpeakerA
3m 50s
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4m 26s

Color or country of origin, beliefs can be argued for and criticized and changed. And the truth is, we don't respect people's beliefs just because they hold them. Beliefs must earn respect, and there's a good reason for this. Beliefs are claims about reality and about how human beings should live within it. So they necessarily lead to behaviors and to values and laws and institutions that affect the lives of everyone, whether they share these beliefs or not. Beliefs end marriages and start wars. Honestly, criticizing the doctrine of Islam does.

SpeakerB
4m 26s
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4m 29s

Not entail bigotry against Arabs or any.

SpeakerA
4m 29s
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4m 36s

Other group of people. It's not an expression of hatred to notice that specific islamic ideas, in particular.

SpeakerB
4m 36s
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4m 39s

Beliefs about martyrdom and jihad and blasphemy.

SpeakerA
4m 39s
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5m 6s

And apostasy, inspire terrible acts of violence. And it's not an expression of phobia. That is irrational fear to notice that violent religious fanatics don't make good neighbors. And while every religion has its fanatics, there is only one religion on earth where even its mainstream members seek to impose their religious taboos on everyone else. There's only one religion that has made.

SpeakerB
5m 6s
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5m 8s

It unsafe for people to criticize it.

SpeakerA
5m 8s
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5m 11s

Or indeed, for its own members to leave it.

SpeakerB
5m 11s
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5m 14s

Only Muslims routinely fear for their lives.

SpeakerA
5m 14s
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5m 26s

When they decide to leave their religion, and this is true even in the west. If you doubt this, just read some books or listen to some podcasts by ex Muslims.

SpeakerB
5m 27s
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5m 29s

Anyone who wants to draw a cartoon.

SpeakerA
5m 29s
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5m 45s

Or write a novel or stage a play that makes fun of Mormonism is free to do that. In the United States, this freedom is nominally guaranteed by the First Amendment, but that is not, in fact, what guarantees it. The freedom to poke fun at Mormonism.

SpeakerB
5m 45s
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5m 49s

Is guaranteed by the fact that Mormons don't tend to murder their critics.

SpeakerA
5m 49s
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5m 56s

They don't start riots and burn embassies in response to satire. When the Book of Mormon became the.

SpeakerB
5m 56s
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6m 1s

Most celebrated musical in the United States, the LDS Church protested by placing ads.

SpeakerA
6m 1s
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6m 9s

For their faith in the program. That might have been a wasted effort, but it was also a charming sign of good humor.

SpeakerB
6m 9s
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6m 11s

Yes, there are crazy and dangerous people.

SpeakerA
6m 11s
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6m 52s

In every faith, and I often hear from them but what is true of Mormonism is true of every other religion, with a single exception. Can you imagine staging a similar play about Islam anywhere on earth? No, you cannot, unless you also imagine the creators of that play being hunted for the rest of their lives by religious maniacs. You also have to imagine Muslims by the hundreds of thousands in dozens of countries going absolutely berserk. At this moment in history, there is only one religion that systematically stifles free expression with credible threats of violence. The truth is, we have already lost.

SpeakerB
6m 52s
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6m 54s

Our first amendment freedoms with respect to Islam.

SpeakerA
6m 54s
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7m 5s

We lost them decades ago. And anyone who is tempted to cry islamophobia at this point shares the blame for this. This status quo is intolerable.

SpeakerB
7m 5s
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7m 9s

And most important, it should be intolerable to Muslims themselves.

SpeakerA
7m 9s
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7m 15s

They should be mortified that their community is so uniquely combustible, so uniquely uncivil.

SpeakerB
7m 15s
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7m 18s

So incapable of self reflection and self.

SpeakerA
7m 18s
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7m 28s

Criticism, so dangerously childish, so desperate to make the whole world its safe space. Consider what is actually happening.

SpeakerB
7m 29s
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7m 31s

Some percentage of the world's Muslims, and.

SpeakerA
7m 31s
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7m 42s

It'S not just extremists are demanding that all nonmuslims conform to islamic law. And while they might not immediately resort to violence in their protests, they threaten it.

SpeakerB
7m 42s
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7m 44s

Carrying a sign through the streets of.

SpeakerA
7m 44s
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7m 49s

London that reads, behead. Those who insult the prophet might still.

SpeakerB
7m 49s
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7m 51s

Count as an example of peaceful protest.

SpeakerA
7m 51s
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7m 53s

But it is also an assurance that.

SpeakerB
7m 53s
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7m 58s

Infidel blood would be shed if the thug holding the sign only had more power.

SpeakerA
7m 58s
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8m 12s

Wherever Muslims have real power, this grotesque promise is always fulfilled. To make a film or stage a play or write a novel critical of islam in any muslim majority country is.

SpeakerB
8m 12s
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8m 14s

As sure a method of suicide as.

SpeakerA
8m 14s
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8m 34s

The laws of physics allow. There is only one religion on earth that has normalized this level of fanaticism, and it isn't an expression of bigotry to notice that this is totally antithetical to everything that civilized people value in the 21st century. The October 7 attacks in Israel changed.

SpeakerB
8m 34s
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8m 37s

The way that many of us think about the vulnerability of open societies.

SpeakerA
8m 37s
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8m 42s

They changed the way we think about immigration and failures of assimilation, and they.

SpeakerB
8m 42s
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8m 44s

Revealed a level of moral confusion in.

SpeakerA
8m 44s
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8m 51s

Our universities and other institutions that is as astonishing as it is masochistic. We have people who are ostensibly, uh.

SpeakerB
8m 52s
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8m 54s

Committed to women's rights and gay rights.

SpeakerA
8m 54s
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9m 4s

And trans rights, mindlessly supporting people who would hurl them from rooftops or beat them to death with their own hands. It is not a sign of bigotry.

SpeakerB
9m 4s
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9m 7s

To notice this hypocrisy and moral confusion.

SpeakerA
9m 7s
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9m 12s

For what it is. It m really is possible to be critical of Israel and to be committed.

SpeakerB
9m 12s
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9m 14s

To the political rights of the palestinian.

SpeakerA
9m 14s
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9m 26s

People without denying the reality of islamic religious fanaticism or the threat that it poses, not just to Israel, but to open societies everywhere. There have been nearly 50,000 acts of.

SpeakerB
9m 26s
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9m 31s

Islamic terrorism in the last 40 years. 90% of them have occurred in muslim countries.

SpeakerA
9m 31s
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9m 47s

Most have nothing to do with Israel or Jews. There have been 82 attacks in France and over 2000 in Pakistan during this period. Do you want France to be more like Pakistan? You just need more jihadists. You just need more people susceptible to becoming jihadists.

SpeakerB
9m 47s
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9m 49s

You just need a wider muslim community.

SpeakerA
9m 49s
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9m 54s

That won't condemn jihadism, but pretends that the theology that inspires it will be.

SpeakerB
9m 54s
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9m 58s

True and perfect until the end of the world. You just need millions of people who.

SpeakerA
9m 58s
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9m 60s

Will protest Israel for defending itself,

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