
#293 – Donald Hoffman: Reality is an Illusion – How Evolution Hid the Truth
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The following is a conversation with Donald Hoffman, professor of cognitive sciences at UC Irvine, focusing his research on evolutionary psychology, visual perception, and consciousness. He's the author of over 120 scientific papers on these topics and his most recent book titled the Case against Reality, why evolution hid the truth from our eyes. I think some of the most interesting ideas in this world, like those of Donald Hoffman's attempt to shake the foundation of our understanding of reality, and thus they take a long time to internalize deeply. So proceed with caution. Questioning the fabric of reality can lead you to either madness or to truth. And the funny thing is, you won't know which is which. Now, a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast. We got calm for meditation, element for hydration, inside tracker for longevity, masterclass for inspiration, and indeed, for hiring. Choose wisely, my friends. And now onto the full ad reads. As always, no ads in the middle. I try to make these interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too. This show is brought to you by calm, a meditation and mental wellness app. Over 100 million people around the world use calm to take care of their minds. Guided meditation is one of the best tools you can use to explore your mind, to focus it, to train it, to know how to focus, how to let the things that are not important, that are distractions, to a peaceful existence, to a happy existence, let them pass away. Let them float past you. This has to do with being able to focus your mind on anything you want, including on your breath, on nothing at all, or on a single thought for prolonged periods of time. This is what calm will help you do. As a listener, you'll get 40% off a calm, premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming. 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Anything you do to improve your body should be based on data from your body. It is so old school, so 20th century, to be doing stuff based on sort of generic averages about the population. You got to take information from your data. Of course, that's what a doctor does when you see them, but they have a very crude amount of data. You should be measuring regularly, all kinds of markers to figure out what's wrong with you, how to improve stuff that is right with you, how to make it even better, all that kind of stuff. That's what this is all about. Go to insidetracker.com lex. For a limited time, you get 20% off the entire store. This show is also brought to you by Masterclass. $180 a year gets you an all access pass to watch courses from the best people in the world in their respective disciplines. This list is, frankly, ridiculous. It includes Chris Hadfield, Neil deGrasse Tyson, will Wright, Carlos Santana, Garrick Asparov, Daniel Negrano, Neil Gaiman, Martin Scorsese, Tony Hawk, Jane Goodall, and just keeps going on and on and on. There's very few masters of the guitar as good as Carlos Santana when he plays Europa. The tone, the timing, the musicality of the bends, the ability to convey through volume changes in motion. Very few people are as good as that man at playing any instrument. It's magic. It's freedom on the guitar. So learning from him what it takes to create great music is a true honor. And I can't believe Masterclass have done this work of putting this all together. It's just amazing. If for no other reason, you should just support their efforts in doing so. Get unlimited access to every masterclass and get 15% off an annual membership if you go to masterclass.com lex this show is brought to you by indeed a hiring website. 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Anyway, right now you get free $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post. You can get up to $500 extra in sponsored job credits with indeed's virtual interviews@indeed.com. Lex offers good for a limited time, terms and conditions apply. This is the Lex Friedman podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Donald Hoffman. In your book the case against reality, why evolution hid the truth from our eyes. You make the bold claim that the world we see with our eyes is not real. It's not even an abstraction of objective reality. It is completely detached from objective reality. Can you explain this idea?
Right, so this is a theorem from evolution by natural selection. So the technical question that I and my team asked was, what is the probability that natural selection would shape sensory systems to see true properties of objective reality? And to our surprise, we found that the answer is precisely zero, except for one kind of structure that we can go into if you want to. But for any generic structure that you might think the world might have a total order, a topology metric, the probability is precisely zero that natural selection would shape any sensory system of any organism to see any aspect of objective reality. So, in that sense, what we're seeing is what we need to see to stay alive long enough to reproduce. So, in other words, we're seeing what we need to guide adaptive behavior, full stop.
So, the evolutionary process, the process that took us from the original life on earth to the humans that we are today, that process does not maximize for truth. It maximizes for fitness. As you say, fitness beats truth. And fitness does not have to be connected to truth, is the claim. And that's where you have an approach towards zero of probability, that we have evolved human cognition, human consciousness, whatever it is, the magic that makes our mind work, evolved not for its ability to see the truth of reality, but its ability
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